It's not the most efficient way of doing things. But many cities and nations welcome Shinra as well. Some actively lobby for reactors in their area.
There are others, but not many. Until now, most SOLDIERs are pretty standard recruit from adults who apply and pass basic training and can get through more advanced training. But better results can be had if you don't wait until a combatant is twenty before you start their training, then there's years and years of bad habits that need to be undone first.
We do have a public security force roughly analogous to most nations' armies, based on some searching I did to try to compare.
[ 'But better results can be had if you don't wait until a combatant is twenty before you start their training, then there's years and years of bad habits that need to be undone first.'
Wow. Wow. This is bad. This is... really bad. And she can't even get to his world to light it on fire.
And he'd try to stop her if she did. Man, they got him good. Shit.
(She bets they told him he was unique. She bets they told him he never failed. She bets they made him feel so special even as they were torturing him -- his attitude toward doctors? toward scientists? advanced results? -- that he believes they are his home and that everything that's been done to him has been done for some... greater good. Fuck.) ]
I'm only trying to make connections, not argue Shinra's policy.
Consider this for context: In most civilizations, the adult is stronger than the child. Whose responsibility is it to protect? The stronger or the weaker? Or is there a more nuanced stance?
Is Shinra also your world's governing agency, in addition to an extremely aggressive developer?
[Her suppositions unfortunately, aren't at all wrong.. but it's not all words and platitudes. Sephiroth is the single most lethally dangerous thing Shinra has ever produced, the result of countless man hours of research and experimentation and lost lives. Little things like friends and family would simply get in the way, positive attachments would be a problem, curiosity could lead to questioning orders - the science department worked hard to create a perfect, obedient monster.
They succeeded.]
I see, my apologies.
Ordinarily it would be the adult, of course. They would presumably have the strength and education to do so, and even on Gaia that's the standard. It simply isn't the case with SOLDIER.
There's other nations and powers; we don't have a single world government. Shinra's merely the most recent power to rise.
[ When they'd told the same things to her, it hadn't been words and platitudes either. She was the Black Widow in a program that produced hundreds of them. However, for Natasha, the conditioning didn't fully take. Maybe it was because it had been interrupted. Maybe it was because it made her so angry, and she'd learned to bury it, folding it over and over like a steel-forged sword, deep in the forge of her heart, until she could use it. Even after Graduation, for those years that they had her... the first chance she took to escape, to tear them down, she took.
Here, she sees, terrifyingly, a mirror of what she could have been.
And she doesn't know how to help him. She can only work to try to get him to ask his own questions.
But he is asking them. And the conditioning is still so strong that even when he sees the dissonance, he swings back to the party line. What can work on this? (What had caused this?) ]
I think it's valuable that you recognize their policies would be a point of contention. No apology is necessary, although I appreciate it as an indication of your understanding. And that is, in fact, the correct social formula.
Why isn't that the case with SOLDIER?
Shinra is a nation, then, as well as a company with a 'national presence'?
One of my teachers was fond of telling me that you can lead a chocobo to water but you can't make it drink.
The strength and education we have to complete our duties far outstrips what others can do. It's not hyperbole! I could probably throw a small car at someone if I needed to. I can't accept that simply because I'm young I should stand by and allow those more fragile than I to be in the way of danger.
We have a similar saying about a horse. I am not sure what a chocobo is.
It's admirable and appropriate to want to protect those who are weaker than you, especially if they are in your care. I've known quite a few people who are younger whose physical abilities and training outstrip those who are older, so what I am about to say is *not* a reflection on your abilities. You wanted to know why what you were talking about was something that was upsetting even though it was not a live scenario. It's a question of care, purpose, and responsibility.
In my experience across most cultures, children are viewed as precious. The purpose of a child is to exist and to grow. As they grow, they take on responsibilities that, hopefully, benefit the community, but they are still *children*, and given the opportunity learn in an adjusted manner. They are vulnerable. There are those who would exploit that vulnerability for their own pleasure and purposes, and it is the responsibility of the adults in their communities to prevent that exploitation and abuse. As you are still fourteen, danger to you falls in a powerful cultural and genetic imperative that, although your abilities and training are no doubt formidable, is not so easily overridden by simple facts. What makes that worse is that you are speaking of a danger which is incredibly specific: For me, it makes me think that something has already happened to you.
And I don't like that.
[ Natasha is well-aware that what she's said is risky, but she hopes she's couched it in enough cultural terms that Sephiroth will be able to listen to it. She is attempting to explain her position, after all, not attacking Shinra. ]
A domesticated, herbivorous monster used for transportation and companionship.
[So basically a horse. The rest though, takes longer to process, and leaves with it a creeping sense of unease. Was she just guessing, or did she already know what she was writing to? Some of it suggested she viewed him as many did, just a child in need of sheltering and care, but other parts..
No. She wasn't trying to tell him to not act like a monster. Just.. act like a child.]
I think I understand. In that case, no amount of attempting to reassure you that I am in fact alright is going to help, is it? Rightly or wrongly, everything I write would by necessity be viewed through a lens of suspicion that I have been misled or on some level don't understand.
[ Well, at least he's still talking to her. Natasha had worried that his conditioning was so strong that even as carefully couched as she could implant the ideas, he'd not only dismiss them out of hand, but feel compelled to sever the connection or even attack her. ]
Not at all. To assume that just because someone is a child they have been mislead or are incapable of grasping the nature of their situation would be a grave miscalculation. Besides, that is not your only defining characteristic. Not all of us have had typical childhoods, and those experiences must be taken into account. As we said before, people are complex.
...that said, I'd probably feel a lot better about it if you could tell me why you're so sure an assassination attempt won't happen. Some people tell me I'm a difficult person to reassure.
Oh. Because it already happened, and he didn't finish the job when he had plenty of opportunity. He brought me to a hospital instead. It wouldn't make much sense to try again.
1/2 (I think you are the sole recipient of all of her multitags so far)
[ There's a pause here. Does the relic show the little typing dots? If it does, there you have it. ]
I'm sorry that happened to you. It's good that you're taking precautions. You're right in that it doesn't seem to make sense to try again when he's already decided not to kill you. I'm assuming he didn't explain his thought process to you?
[ Alternatively: WHO DID THIS, I WOULD LIKE A WORD. ]
It is an ongoing and relentless problem that my odds of getting an answer to a question are inversely proportionate to how personal that question is to my life. It took a decade to even get anyone to tell me my mother's actual name. And I asked. A lot.
I intend to find out though, hence wanting to know how to not get horribly killed in the process in case he changes his mind. I don't think he will but I didn't think he would the first time either.
[ ...so he was taken as young as she was too. She wonders if they told him the truth about his mother. They'd lied to her about it. And she'd believed them for years. ]
I see. I'm glad you didn't give up until they told you.
Approaching him with this will be difficult. He clearly had strong motivation to kill you and equally strong motivation to change his mind; assassins don't often do that. Your approach will remind him of an incomplete job, and that will likely add to his reluctance to talk to you.
Then again... he might also want something from *you*, likely related to whatever changed his mind. It's possible you can broach a trade of information.
[ Natasha debates about whether or not she should just ask who it is; in fact, she could easily offer to get Sephiroth the information herself, and she could probably do it, too. But... she's not sure that's the best course of action. There are clear complications here, and she needs to be careful.
But she hasn't seen any history of violent action committed by this fourteen-year-old boy in all of her scourings of the network, and whoever this assassin was went after a kid, no matter how highly trained or altered. That... deserves a question, at the very least. She's not going to be able to let that go.
And it's better not to make assurances when her hope is to continue to cultivate some kind of trust with this boy in order to better understand what's been done to him and maybe, maybe, be able to give him the tools to break free from it. He deserves to be able to make his own choices and deal with those consequences. ]
It's never a good idea to become so focused on an aspect of your plan that you forget your primary goals. [ This is possibly the last bit of strategic advice she's going to give him until she knows more about the situation. ] You don't want to be so focused on finding out why he is going to kill you that you encourage him to try to do it again. You have a life here to keep living.
I'm hoping explaining it won't last will prevent that. But if he tries again, I'm not going to stand by and do nothing this time. A Turk isn't a good matchup against a SOLDIER unless they can prepare ahead of time, and if I do the ambushing it'll eliminate that advantage.
[ ...she should probably just stay out of this. Death isn't permanent here. And he's right - against a super soldier, an unprepared assassin is in trouble. (If they are truly unprepared, that's on them.)
...she's not going to be able to stay out of this. ]
Be careful. I understand that this is not something that you're starting, and that you have the training and the capacity to pull off a successful ambush. But conflicts like these can tend to escalate, and death is only the last thing that can happen to someone, not the worst.
I also want you to recognize that by asking me these questions, you've involved me. I am not going to try to stop you, but I am going to look for more information. If you'd like to make that job easier on me, the name of the Turk would be helpful.
[The response is delayed. No typing dots, just a Read notification.
She's right, he's once again involved an outsider in his problems, whether or not he intended to. And if she went investigating and got hurt doing it, it would be squarely on his shoulders.
If that's the price of reaching out, then that was unacceptable.]
I understand.
Please allow me a day or two, and then I will do as you ask.
[ Natasha worries in that time that she came off a little harshly - that wasn't what she meant to do. But she wanted him to understand that he opened the door she's going to have to walk through. ]
It's not wrong to involve others when you are looking for a different set of expertise. But this is your life and your call, and I will respect your choice. Even if, as I said, it goes against a strong cultural and genetic imperative.
[ A beat. ]
You didn't ask me what I became once I stopped actively assassinating. I told you I was involved in crisis management, but on my world it has a more specific name.
Just as I am not responsible for your choices, even though I am concerned about your safety as you carry out your plan, you are not responsible for mine.
What people do with the information they are given is on them, even though it does not feel clear cut. I've found the best thing to do in those circumstances where I still feel responsibility is to attempt to find a way to work together.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
getscooperation) wrote2024-04-01 07:14 pm
no subject
How long has it been standard for Shinra to use children as soldiers - or SOLDIERS? Were you the only one being raised this way or were there others?
I am asking to establish context. I'll attempt to explain why shortly.
...I see. Yes, I think I will avoid the ice cream.
no subject
There are others, but not many. Until now, most SOLDIERs are pretty standard recruit from adults who apply and pass basic training and can get through more advanced training. But better results can be had if you don't wait until a combatant is twenty before you start their training, then there's years and years of bad habits that need to be undone first.
We do have a public security force roughly analogous to most nations' armies, based on some searching I did to try to compare.
???
1/2
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh boy.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh boy.
Wow. Wow. This is bad. This is... really bad. And she can't even get to his world to light it on fire.
And he'd try to stop her if she did. Man, they got him good. Shit.
(She bets they told him he was unique. She bets they told him he never failed. She bets they made him feel so special even as they were torturing him -- his attitude toward doctors? toward scientists? advanced results? -- that he believes they are his home and that everything that's been done to him has been done for some... greater good. Fuck.) ]
no subject
Consider this for context: In most civilizations, the adult is stronger than the child. Whose responsibility is it to protect? The stronger or the weaker? Or is there a more nuanced stance?
Is Shinra also your world's governing agency, in addition to an extremely aggressive developer?
no subject
They succeeded.]
I see, my apologies.
Ordinarily it would be the adult, of course. They would presumably have the strength and education to do so, and even on Gaia that's the standard. It simply isn't the case with SOLDIER.
There's other nations and powers; we don't have a single world government. Shinra's merely the most recent power to rise.
no subject
Here, she sees, terrifyingly, a mirror of what she could have been.
And she doesn't know how to help him. She can only work to try to get him to ask his own questions.
But he is asking them. And the conditioning is still so strong that even when he sees the dissonance, he swings back to the party line. What can work on this? (What had caused this?) ]
I think it's valuable that you recognize their policies would be a point of contention. No apology is necessary, although I appreciate it as an indication of your understanding. And that is, in fact, the correct social formula.
Why isn't that the case with SOLDIER?
Shinra is a nation, then, as well as a company with a 'national presence'?
no subject
The strength and education we have to complete our duties far outstrips what others can do. It's not hyperbole! I could probably throw a small car at someone if I needed to. I can't accept that simply because I'm young I should stand by and allow those more fragile than I to be in the way of danger.
It is now.
no subject
It's admirable and appropriate to want to protect those who are weaker than you, especially if they are in your care. I've known quite a few people who are younger whose physical abilities and training outstrip those who are older, so what I am about to say is *not* a reflection on your abilities. You wanted to know why what you were talking about was something that was upsetting even though it was not a live scenario. It's a question of care, purpose, and responsibility.
In my experience across most cultures, children are viewed as precious. The purpose of a child is to exist and to grow. As they grow, they take on responsibilities that, hopefully, benefit the community, but they are still *children*, and given the opportunity learn in an adjusted manner. They are vulnerable. There are those who would exploit that vulnerability for their own pleasure and purposes, and it is the responsibility of the adults in their communities to prevent that exploitation and abuse. As you are still fourteen, danger to you falls in a powerful cultural and genetic imperative that, although your abilities and training are no doubt formidable, is not so easily overridden by simple facts. What makes that worse is that you are speaking of a danger which is incredibly specific: For me, it makes me think that something has already happened to you.
And I don't like that.
[ Natasha is well-aware that what she's said is risky, but she hopes she's couched it in enough cultural terms that Sephiroth will be able to listen to it. She is attempting to explain her position, after all, not attacking Shinra. ]
no subject
[So basically a horse. The rest though, takes longer to process, and leaves with it a creeping sense of unease. Was she just guessing, or did she already know what she was writing to? Some of it suggested she viewed him as many did, just a child in need of sheltering and care, but other parts..
No. She wasn't trying to tell him to not act like a monster. Just.. act like a child.]
I think I understand. In that case, no amount of attempting to reassure you that I am in fact alright is going to help, is it? Rightly or wrongly, everything I write would by necessity be viewed through a lens of suspicion that I have been misled or on some level don't understand.
no subject
Not at all. To assume that just because someone is a child they have been mislead or are incapable of grasping the nature of their situation would be a grave miscalculation. Besides, that is not your only defining characteristic. Not all of us have had typical childhoods, and those experiences must be taken into account. As we said before, people are complex.
...that said, I'd probably feel a lot better about it if you could tell me why you're so sure an assassination attempt won't happen. Some people tell me I'm a difficult person to reassure.
no subject
1/2 (I think you are the sole recipient of all of her multitags so far)
no subject
[ There's a pause here. Does the relic show the little typing dots? If it does, there you have it. ]
I'm sorry that happened to you. It's good that you're taking precautions. You're right in that it doesn't seem to make sense to try again when he's already decided not to kill you. I'm assuming he didn't explain his thought process to you?
[ Alternatively: WHO DID THIS, I WOULD LIKE A WORD. ]
he keeps leaving out the important bits
I intend to find out though, hence wanting to know how to not get horribly killed in the process in case he changes his mind. I don't think he will but I didn't think he would the first time either.
lol, like names XDD
I see. I'm glad you didn't give up until they told you.
Approaching him with this will be difficult. He clearly had strong motivation to kill you and equally strong motivation to change his mind; assassins don't often do that. Your approach will remind him of an incomplete job, and that will likely add to his reluctance to talk to you.
Then again... he might also want something from *you*, likely related to whatever changed his mind. It's possible you can broach a trade of information.
whoops~
I'm beginning to think investing in one of those one time spell scrolls might be a good idea. Sleep is a great equalizer..
no subject
I'm not familiar with time spell scrolls.
[ Natasha debates about whether or not she should just ask who it is; in fact, she could easily offer to get Sephiroth the information herself, and she could probably do it, too. But... she's not sure that's the best course of action. There are clear complications here, and she needs to be careful.
But she hasn't seen any history of violent action committed by this fourteen-year-old boy in all of her scourings of the network, and whoever this assassin was went after a kid, no matter how highly trained or altered. That... deserves a question, at the very least. She's not going to be able to let that go.
And it's better not to make assurances when her hope is to continue to cultivate some kind of trust with this boy in order to better understand what's been done to him and maybe, maybe, be able to give him the tools to break free from it. He deserves to be able to make his own choices and deal with those consequences. ]
no subject
Maybe I'm overthinking it. There's preparedness and then there's doing things that might make it worse.
no subject
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...she's not going to be able to stay out of this. ]
Be careful. I understand that this is not something that you're starting, and that you have the training and the capacity to pull off a successful ambush. But conflicts like these can tend to escalate, and death is only the last thing that can happen to someone, not the worst.
I also want you to recognize that by asking me these questions, you've involved me. I am not going to try to stop you, but I am going to look for more information. If you'd like to make that job easier on me, the name of the Turk would be helpful.
no subject
She's right, he's once again involved an outsider in his problems, whether or not he intended to. And if she went investigating and got hurt doing it, it would be squarely on his shoulders.
If that's the price of reaching out, then that was unacceptable.]
I understand.
Please allow me a day or two, and then I will do as you ask.
no subject
It's not wrong to involve others when you are looking for a different set of expertise. But this is your life and your call, and I will respect your choice. Even if, as I said, it goes against a strong cultural and genetic imperative.
[ A beat. ]
You didn't ask me what I became once I stopped actively assassinating. I told you I was involved in crisis management, but on my world it has a more specific name.
no subject
That she herself is a trained killer is largely irrelevant.]
You are very kind to say so, but if others get hurt because of my questions then it is indeed wrong. I won't shirk that responsibility.
Crisis management seemed concise enough of an answer. Is there another term?
no subject
What people do with the information they are given is on them, even though it does not feel clear cut. I've found the best thing to do in those circumstances where I still feel responsibility is to attempt to find a way to work together.
Yes. I am an Avenger.
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